Not much of a weekend
by Beeraroundtown ~ April 13th, 2009. Filed under: Events.Well, not much to report, another weekend passed, this one with a featuring a holiday (a weekend holiday, the lamest type) that managed to take up most of my Sunday and the rain destroyed all drive to get much else done. I did manage to dig out my homebrew gear from the attic and clean all that off. I have a few replacement parts coming and should be up and brewing again hopefully next week, aiming to brew up a Saison for summer. This will be my first time brewing in about 4 years, so hopefully I won’t mess stuff up to bad.
Friday after work I headed down to the Double Mountain meet the brewer at Henry’s Tavern and found myself flat out disappointed. It wasn’t the beer or the brewer, it was the location. I’ve been trying to cast aside old notions of Henry’s, working to give them another chance, but this was just such a poor effort at an event that I left with the “never again” kind of feeling. Now in saying that it is only fair to point out that it wasn’t all the establishments fault, their crowd could probably care less about a meet the brewer event, Henry’s has never really been know as a “Beer Geek” sort of place, but a little promotion or interaction might have helped a bit. I arrived to a pack house as always, Pearl District persona crowded in to get a Friday afternoon beer, but where was the meet the brewer event even being held? Ohh, I found them, stuck back in the corner with 2 small tables, patrons seeming oblivious that one of Oregon’s best brewers was there to talk about their beer and give out free samples. I ordered a glass of their barrel aged Terrible Two and had a nice chat with Charlie about what they’ve been up to and what to expect from Double Mountain in the next few years. I think I might have been one of maybe 4 people that even knew there was a meet the brewer event going on. In the end I left feeling confused, did they really make him drive from Hood River for this?
Frustration in full effect I headed out to Baileys taproom, calm, comfortable, Cascade? I still hadn’t found the opportunity to open up one of my bottles of Cascade The Vine yet, so upon hearing that Geoff had some for sale this seemed like as good of a time as ever. At 9% ABV this isn’t one I could drink by myself, so thankfully my friend Josh was there to split a bottle with me. I had tried this beer months ago when Ron had a sour tasting at the brewery, then the beer was sweet, minimal sourness, I had assumed the lactobacillus hadn’t taken full effect yet, so I was expecting the bottles now to be more in-line with his other sours. The bottles claim that they have aged for over 6 months, but still the sourness is very minimal, sweet white grape comes through, slight spiciness to it like a geverztraminer, prickly carbonation with a slightly tart finish with hints of Martinellis apple cider to it. If you go in hoping for a sour you’ll be let down, with that said the resulting beer is delicious in its own right. The 9% alcohol is almost undetectable, this beer will sneak up on you for sure. I’m going to hold onto the few bottles I have for another 6 months to see if the sourness picks up at all.
Anyone else try this yet? thoughts?
April 13th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
I feel you one the Henry’s event. I stopped in around 5:30 on Friday I was really excited after seeing your promo post about it as Double Mountain is one of my favorite Oregon breweries as well. I entered through the bar area and couldn’t find anything remotely having to do with the event. I gave up as I kept getting bumped by the slightly buzzed Pearl happy hour crowd of people. That place is totally frustrating any time I step foot in there.
I can’t wait to get my hands on the Vine. I just dropped a bit on some bottles this past weekend so hopefully there will still be some left in town this coming weekend.
By the way, if you are interested in some Black Albert I saw bottles at the Whole Foods in the Pearl/Downtown for about $10. Is it being distributed around town now?
_Matthew
April 13th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
I’ve not tried THAT Cascade beer, but wanted to comment on the Henry’s patronage.
I agree with your observations. Most people think the Doc can be rather snobbish and rightfully so…. ;-} Of course, the Doc and the man ARE two different personalities. :-O I think beer is for everyone who is interested, but I don’t think it should be used as a status symbol or identified with a social identity of hip or cool. If you enjoy beer and are interested in expanding your beer adventures… GREAT, go for it… Have a great time! If you want to stroke your ego and hang out at venues that make you and others feel hip…. That’s fine too. But! Don’t mix the two. If you have no interest in beer other than looking hip, stay out of the serious beer scene. I think there’s a place for everyone and it’s OK to dabble a little in different areas, but Henry’s is a good example of a great potential Beer Scene that’s ruined by aloof patronage that has no interest in beer.
I think Henry’s concept of an unscaled beer den (like Brouwers Cafe) is great! They just have attracted the wrong patrons. Maybe if the local Beer Geeks started patronizing Henry’s more often, Henry’s can be saved from the Plastic Pretentious Presumptuous Pearl Populous. P5’s….
April 13th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
Bo,
I know Baileys still has The Vine and they sell bottles to go at a decent price, so you could check there. I saw the Black Albert at Belmont the other day, amazing how quickly that price was cut in half, doesn’t it feel like yesterday places were charging $10 a 6oz glass?
April 13th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Doc,
The big difference between Henrys and Brouwers is Henry’s has over 100 taps, but 99% are common beers you can find anywhere, probably a closer comparison to Old Chicago or something, although I hear what you’re saying about aiming for the upscale. As for them, I wouldn’t want to change, seems they are pulling in a hell of a crowd, but like you said, don’t try to appease everyone.
I guess the beer geeks could try to take the place over, but I’m not sure I want to subject myself to that in the mean time, in the half hour I was there I could feel my shirt collar starting to raise up and my hair kept trying to go spiky on me, if I were there any longer I’d be drinking a Stella and talking about my new golf score iphone app. I’ll let someone else lead the way on that one.
April 13th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
You have the new GOLF SCORE APP on you iPhone???!!! ;-}
Just kidding….
We definitely don’t need anymore UPSCALE Chicago Pizzas!
I haven’t been to Henry’s for quite awhile, but sounds exactly what I remember. We’d have to have Portland Beer Geeks stake a claim to go there everyday for a month to change the place…. 100 Beer Geeks every night. The SUITS probably spend more money than the Geeks, so Henry’s would just throw the Beer Geeks out after about 3 nights…. ;-}
It’s obvious that Henry’s is all about the might BUCK and not the Booze…
April 13th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
I agree that Henry’s is not for the beer geeks. But, that shouldn’t stop anyone from taking advantage of a good meet the brewer session. Hardly anyone there knew what was going on? Great. It allowed me more time to chat with the Double Mountain guys without having to fight through a crowd of beer geeks. I enjoyed the Terrible Two, had a chat with the Double Mountain guys about what to expect this summer, and score some swag. Mission accomplished.
Although, it didn’t help that the Blazers were playing the Lakers that night – which helped contribute to an overpacked crowd with little interest in a tasting session.
April 14th, 2009 at 10:52 am
Jwall,
I agree….. Having the brewers full attention would have been nice! Screw the rest of them….
Of course, I think gist of these comments are just wondering, “Why would Henry’s even have a Brewers Night when their clientele obviously have no interest…?”
April 14th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
Derek,
After some thinking and subsequently revisting the section in Wild Brews about Lactobaccillus, I’m not so hopeful of any acid development. According to the text, and other articles I’ve read, the bacteria is highly intolerant of alcohol (make sense!). It’s typically Brettanomyces that procudes acids in long term aging, and we know that Ron doesn’t use any microorganisms other than Lacto and Sacchyromyces.
However, Wyeast (which I am assuming is Ron’s source of Lacto) states that their culture has an alcohol tolerance of 9% (http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=148).
Being that I just started brewing with the bacteria I don’t have any experience to corroborate either side. It’ll be interesting to check this beer out in a few months.
As for Henry’s, their new beer manager is trying to target the craft beer community, so this would explain the recent upswing in brewer’s nights and advertising in more craft centric outlets. Though, I haven’t personally seen any changes other than announcing announcing events. It’s a moot point discussing this place since their business model isn’t going to change, nor should it, since they have no incentive to compete for the beer geek audience. The bar wasn’t designed with ardent beer drinkers in mind.
April 14th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
Josh,
I was actually just reading something that explained the same thing about the alcohol tolerance. It explained how some of these big sour beers like RR Consecration are blends, where they do a lower alcohol sour with big acidity then blend it with a Quad or something to get that strong sour. I think you’re right, probably not much more sourness will be had in that one.
April 14th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
I had made similar comments about alcohol tolerance of Wild Yeast and the like, back when Roots came out with their Flanders Red. I commented that a decent blend might of helped, but a 9-10% Flanders Red was so far off the Flanders Red mark and so high in alcohol, acid production from wild yeasts would be limited. Of course, I added that brewing to style and style Specific Gravity would have been beneficial.
I was told that I was a blow-hard and an idiot. Of course, I’m sure the Roots boys could have read the same book as me…. I’m not even a professional brewer and know that wild yeast can have alcohol intolerance’s and blending is the Belgians solution.
There are other brewers brewing Belgian Sour ales in this country. Sounds like a phone conference might be a beneficial asset to future such brewing attempts….. of course, some of this knowledge can be found in the easy to find Belgian home brewing books…. :-O
Of course, this means, more than likely, your 9% Cascade Sour may not get much sourer, but ya never know…. that Lacto may just turn that beer rancid in time and ergo, become more ……Uh…… Sour?
;-}
Nice to see that others are reading the same text as myself.
April 14th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
Dr Wort,
Yes, a high alcohol acid beer cannot be a Flanders. I guess a lot of folks tag on the whole ’style’ tag, for instance, ‘A Flemish style Ale’ or whatever. I think calling the Vine a ‘Northwest Sour’ is appropriate, just as the higher alcohol sours coming from Russian River and the likes are being dubbed ‘American Wild Ales.’ These are unique beers in their own right, drawing inspiration from the beers of Flanders and Payottenland only in the use of microorganisms other than Sacchroymyces.
I’ve heard the scuttlebutt regarding the Roots beer that is blended far too many times, and that it was once a venerable acid ale. Only a few know for sure, but probably will never tell. Though based on the reception it might be better to come out and say we screwed up with the blending.
Either way, I’m pretty sure the bacteria is finished in the Vine. Based on my reading Lactobaccillus is very sensitive with its environment. I’ll know for sure when my homebrews are ready in 6months to 3 years!
April 14th, 2009 at 9:12 pm
I went to Henry’s on Thursday for the Sierra Nevada event and had the same experience you describe. It was so crowded and the staff so clueless about the event that I left after finding and paying for parking. The good part is that it was early enough that I went to Horsebrass and had a Leafer Madness on cask. Very nice beer, and justifiably gone on Saturday when I returned for another.
April 15th, 2009 at 1:05 am
Josh,
Call me Doc…. Everyone else does…. ;-}
You know me and definitions…. ;-} How would we categorize a NW Sour? How is it different than say a Berliner Weisse or St.Peter’s Ales type Sour, both of which uses a Lacto process or addition? What sets a “NW Sour” apart from an American Wild ale? A profile breakdown for future reference…..
I’m just curious….
California uses a term West Coast Style Ale and here I see the term Northwest Style Ale. Is CA being generous by including the entire West Coast to describe an beer style that tastes exactly like a NW ale? Why do we keep having to make more categories???
Once again, just curious….
April 15th, 2009 at 6:57 am
We have to keep making more styles for you DW It really only comes down to needing more styles because people keep experimenting and there are people that are picky about classification (not saying you are wrong in doing so, but it is why). Then we need to create new categories to capture these beers because their ABV doesn’t fit the range of flemish red or whatever.
Then there is the whole Lambic regional thing, any spontaneously fermented beers outside of a part of Belgium can’t be called Lambic, so we have to come up with other cheeky names like Sonambic. Lets hop beer doesn’t start doing this more or we might have Portlambic, San Diegambic, etc.
April 15th, 2009 at 8:56 am
Doc,
Derek hits this on the head. I think these definitions are going to evolve into something more concrete as more brewers experiment, gain experience and distribute these types of beers.
We can say, for argumentative purposes, that Northwest sours have a higher abv, doesn’t use any wild yeasts, and maybe the grain bill doesn’t include wheat or corn. Ron’s beers can’t be Flanders by design, and those beers from Cal (I’ve seen American Wild Ale more than West Coast style ale) use variations of microorganisms that the PNW guys haven’t gotten into yet. I believe that an attempt should be made to carve out something new, unofficially, when a beer is being produced that doesn’t fit under the umbrella of an existing style.
Also Doc, remember that most of the beer styles we know exist by happenstance and evolution. It’s not like those brewers making spring beers for their farmhands immediately turned their nose at their neighbor for not adhering to guidelines. In time a norm will be established and a coherant style can be defined, but until then let’s just see what a Northwest Sour becomes.
April 15th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
Yea, you guys know I love categorizing… ;-}
But, I hate redundancy. :-0
Regional Styles are fine if they are unique. Anchor Steam ™ used to be the only indigenous American beer. Why? Because it was different from any other known beer style. That is what constitutes a UNIQUE BEER STYLE to me. Something that is publicly accepted to be new, different and unique. American Wild, American Sour, West Coast Wild, CA Wild, Portlambic….. It all means nothing but promotional bullshit unless it’s UNIQUE ENTITY accepted by the beer community at large. Like Derek is stating, this could get to point of ridiculous.. ;-}
I understand that Cascade is using Lacto which is a Bacteria and not Wild Yeasts.
In regard to LActobacillus, Wikipedia states: “In humans they are present in the vagina and the gastrointestinal tract, where they are symbiotic and make up a small portion of the gut flora.”
Yea! Doesn’t that sound appetizing!? ;-}
Lacto beers are few, but not unique. Lacto Traditional Stout Beer – Simonds Farsons, Malta; Hitachino Nest Sweet Stout (Lacto); Berliner Weiss, Guinness, St Peters and others all use some kind of LActo fermentation. True, these are not high Gravity beers, but as we were originally discussing…. Alcohol inhibits the growth of Lacto, so these beers are taking LActo to the extreme. DA commented that “the Vine” was of questionable character and flavor. While some of these Lacto beers have been honed down, it appears they are far proficient to be given a Title of unique style.
If we do achieve a style from these Lacto beers, do we have to be so greedy and call it a Northwest Sour. That’s so ambiguous. Why not call it a Double Lacto or Imperial Lacto. I think the word, SOUR, should stay within the Wild Yeast beers since Lacto makes more reference to LActic Acid.
This could be a discussion of West Coast vs NW Ales, as well. I see the difference between a Berliner Weisse and a Cascade Apricot, but is it worth giving it a Title? Belgium has like 144 different styles of beers, but only a handful are actually categorized. Does this upset me? No! I respect that the Belgians philosophy is ‘We make some unique stuff…. If you like it. great! If not, we’re not going to wave a flag to draw attention to our unique styles.’ It’s the kind of things that rest of world laughs at when they look at America. Horn blowing, flag raising, self absorption….. whatever you want to call it…
There’s nothing wrong with being unique or making a unique product, but I don’t really understand the blatant self promotion and proclamation. Maybe it’s just the American way, that everybody feels they HAVE to be “the best” at something even if it’s trivial? Vinnie (Russian River BC) didn’t give his Belgian style beers the title California Sours or even American Sours. That title was given by the national beer community.
Josh, I agree with your thought about new and unique styles. We should attempt new brewing concepts and styles, but we don’t need to ram it down peoples throats. Self proclamation of greatness usually makes one look like a idiot, letting the populous make that judgement is a different story.
Is anybody following my way of thought or am I just writing to entertain my own thoughts? ;-}
April 15th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
Doc,
I didn’t feel that putting NW Sour on the label was meant as the boasting (dick waving was a previously used term) symbolism you are referring to. If anything I see the NW Sour as more of a tongue in cheek reference to Lambic, since we aren’t fit to brew “Lambics” here in the NW. I think most brewers could care less about categorizing most of their beers, they leave that to beer judges and beer geeks, they are simply trying to convey what their beer is to the consumer so they don’t pick up the bottle thinking it is a sweet stout and end up with something funky and sour. With that in mind they have to dodge words like “Lambic”, so NW Sour just probably seemed like an easy fit.
I think we all agree that there are to many styles, broadening them up a bit would be nice. I get that it is really hard as a beer judge to have broad categories, how do you compare traditional English IPAs to NW IPAs if there is only an IPA category? So some happy medium must be found.
Also, Belgium had hundreds of years to build styles like Flemish Red, Lambic, Farmhouse Ale, Old Bruin, ect… but America is just getting started into the wild ales, so naturally a few new categories will probably come up… smoked pesto Portlambic anyone?
April 15th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
Your kind of following my thought….. :-O
May 31st, 2009 at 5:31 pm
Did you design this blog yourself or is it one of those premium themes, nice.
May 31st, 2009 at 6:05 pm
Jimmy,
I just added the banner at the top, I was going to customize it more, but I’ve been lazy.